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	<title>Comments on: Giving meaning to veganism</title>
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	<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/</link>
	<description>Living Opposed to Violence and Exploitation</description>
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		<title>By: Alex Melonas</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-369</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Melonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Dec 2009 23:01:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-369</guid>
		<description>Victor,

You didn&#039;t really respond to my question. Suppose the NAACP &quot;appropriated&quot; the oppression of some other ethnic minority for the end of illuminating racism and advocating against its horrible manifestations. Would the NAACP be doing something wrong? If yes, that seems deeply immoral to me on both consequential and deontological grounds. I asked this same question to a representative of the Anti-Defamation League and they couldn&#039;t respond. If we could use the Holocaust to advocate against genocide in Africa, why would that be wrong? The Anti-Defamation League assumes that human suffering and death is worse; therefore, for the end of ending nonhuman animal oppression, the &quot;appropriation&quot; is wrong. But in my example, it&#039;s okay. Which means they aren&#039;t making a principled point. Are you?   

You make a comfortable, albeit irrational, distinction, however, to justify this: PETA does this for a &quot;corporations ends,&quot; whereas in my example, the end would be to address oppression. PETA, like the organization in my hypothetical, is &quot;appropriating&quot; oppressions for the end of ending the thing-status of nonhuman animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victor,</p>
<p>You didn&#8217;t really respond to my question. Suppose the NAACP &#8220;appropriated&#8221; the oppression of some other ethnic minority for the end of illuminating racism and advocating against its horrible manifestations. Would the NAACP be doing something wrong? If yes, that seems deeply immoral to me on both consequential and deontological grounds. I asked this same question to a representative of the Anti-Defamation League and they couldn&#8217;t respond. If we could use the Holocaust to advocate against genocide in Africa, why would that be wrong? The Anti-Defamation League assumes that human suffering and death is worse; therefore, for the end of ending nonhuman animal oppression, the &#8220;appropriation&#8221; is wrong. But in my example, it&#8217;s okay. Which means they aren&#8217;t making a principled point. Are you?   </p>
<p>You make a comfortable, albeit irrational, distinction, however, to justify this: PETA does this for a &#8220;corporations ends,&#8221; whereas in my example, the end would be to address oppression. PETA, like the organization in my hypothetical, is &#8220;appropriating&#8221; oppressions for the end of ending the thing-status of nonhuman animals.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon Becker</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-367</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon Becker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 16:13:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-367</guid>
		<description>Victor, have you read Breeze Harper&#039;s take on PETA&#039;s Animal Liberation Project?: http://web.mac.com/sistahvegan98/iWeb/research/Sistah_Vegan_Book_Project.html

For anyone wishing to view the 2005 version referenced by Harper in the essay above, visit: http://web.archive.org/web/20050710023410/http://www.peta.org/animalliberation/

I know you don&#039;t oppose making the comparison between human slavery and the enslavement of other animals, as LOVE recommendeds reading Marjorie Spiegel&#039;s /The Dreaded Comparison/. Is your criticism of PETA&#039;s Animal Liberation Project due to PETA&#039;s presentation of the issues or is it based on the fact that it comes from PETA, an organization generally not focused on intersectionality of oppression? Or is it something else?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victor, have you read Breeze Harper&#8217;s take on PETA&#8217;s Animal Liberation Project?: <a href="http://web.mac.com/sistahvegan98/iWeb/research/Sistah_Vegan_Book_Project.html" rel="nofollow">http://web.mac.com/sistahvegan98/iWeb/research/Sistah_Vegan_Book_Project.html</a></p>
<p>For anyone wishing to view the 2005 version referenced by Harper in the essay above, visit: <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20050710023410/http://www.peta.org/animalliberation/" rel="nofollow">http://web.archive.org/web/20050710023410/http://www.peta.org/animalliberation/</a></p>
<p>I know you don&#8217;t oppose making the comparison between human slavery and the enslavement of other animals, as LOVE recommendeds reading Marjorie Spiegel&#8217;s /The Dreaded Comparison/. Is your criticism of PETA&#8217;s Animal Liberation Project due to PETA&#8217;s presentation of the issues or is it based on the fact that it comes from PETA, an organization generally not focused on intersectionality of oppression? Or is it something else?</p>
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		<title>By: victor</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-366</link>
		<dc:creator>victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-366</guid>
		<description>Hello Alex, I&#039;m glad you brought this up: the position you&#039;re expressing is a common one used to defend PETA. Because you expressed it so well, I think it&#039;s clear the experiences of others are considered by PETA as yet one more tool to be used in the furtherance of their corporate goals. So, yes, this is appropriation.

PETA as a corporation is ignorant about issues of racist oppression: how else to explain their campaign earlier this year where they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxAaK0iJ2vQ&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;dressed up as the KKK&lt;/a&gt; (self-described as &quot;hilarious&quot;)? Since they have made it clear time and again that they are not concerned with racist oppression, it&#039;s deeply offensive for them to be taking people&#039;s experience of racist oppression and using it for the corporation&#039;s own ends. It is yet one more way to exploit people of color.

Experiences of racist oppression are not abstract, to be valued only when a corporation can get something out of them. They are the painful, lived experiences of real people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello Alex, I&#8217;m glad you brought this up: the position you&#8217;re expressing is a common one used to defend PETA. Because you expressed it so well, I think it&#8217;s clear the experiences of others are considered by PETA as yet one more tool to be used in the furtherance of their corporate goals. So, yes, this is appropriation.</p>
<p>PETA as a corporation is ignorant about issues of racist oppression: how else to explain their campaign earlier this year where they <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxAaK0iJ2vQ" rel="nofollow">dressed up as the KKK</a> (self-described as &#8220;hilarious&#8221;)? Since they have made it clear time and again that they are not concerned with racist oppression, it&#8217;s deeply offensive for them to be taking people&#8217;s experience of racist oppression and using it for the corporation&#8217;s own ends. It is yet one more way to exploit people of color.</p>
<p>Experiences of racist oppression are not abstract, to be valued only when a corporation can get something out of them. They are the painful, lived experiences of real people.</p>
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		<title>By: victor</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-365</link>
		<dc:creator>victor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-365</guid>
		<description>Hello, Elaine! I&#039;m not sure where you&#039;re reading in the post that MYM is perpetuating oppression* (the words you quote aren&#039;t even in the post!) and in any case I think it&#039;s besides the point. PETA repeatedly and deliberately engages in campaigns that harm people. This is not exactly news and the least I can do is to not support a corporation that hurts people.

* But since you asked: It&#039;s true that Meet Your Meat only addresses the treatment of non-human animals used by humans and does not question the use of unconsenting beings. While MYM does not perpetuate oppression in an explicit way, by not questioning the exploitive system, the line of reasoning used in MYM falls victim to speciesist ideology that considers it a given the right of humans to use non-human animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, Elaine! I&#8217;m not sure where you&#8217;re reading in the post that MYM is perpetuating oppression* (the words you quote aren&#8217;t even in the post!) and in any case I think it&#8217;s besides the point. PETA repeatedly and deliberately engages in campaigns that harm people. This is not exactly news and the least I can do is to not support a corporation that hurts people.</p>
<p>* But since you asked: It&#8217;s true that Meet Your Meat only addresses the treatment of non-human animals used by humans and does not question the use of unconsenting beings. While MYM does not perpetuate oppression in an explicit way, by not questioning the exploitive system, the line of reasoning used in MYM falls victim to speciesist ideology that considers it a given the right of humans to use non-human animals.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Melonas</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-363</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Melonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:41:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-363</guid>
		<description>Is it your argument that PETA&#039;s use of images from slavery, the holocaust, genocide, and world hunger is racist because they are using these images, and thus &quot;appropriating&quot; the suffering of others, for a different end: to promote animal rights? That doesn&#039;t follow, logically, and as a matter of ethics, the position should be reconsidered. 

Consider an organization who uses images of the slave trade to challenge people in such a way as to awake them to the suffering experienced by a group of humans in South America; for the end of provoking action. The use of these images certainly doesn&#039;t justify the slave trade. Indeed, its moral badness is the motive-force-premise. It also doesn&#039;t imply a normative assessment of comparable harms: this is worse than that. Again, the &quot;appropriation,&quot; if you will, is done with the intention of illuminating an example of suffering by reference to another example of suffering that happens to be in our consciousness. 

I think consequentially, if showing images of the slave trade promoted activism to alleviate the plight of other beings, your argument is deeply unethical. And deontologically it is almost hegemonic, in an essentialist way: my suffering is of a different kind, worse even, and therefore even if it can be used in such a way as to end other suffering, it is wrong to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it your argument that PETA&#8217;s use of images from slavery, the holocaust, genocide, and world hunger is racist because they are using these images, and thus &#8220;appropriating&#8221; the suffering of others, for a different end: to promote animal rights? That doesn&#8217;t follow, logically, and as a matter of ethics, the position should be reconsidered. </p>
<p>Consider an organization who uses images of the slave trade to challenge people in such a way as to awake them to the suffering experienced by a group of humans in South America; for the end of provoking action. The use of these images certainly doesn&#8217;t justify the slave trade. Indeed, its moral badness is the motive-force-premise. It also doesn&#8217;t imply a normative assessment of comparable harms: this is worse than that. Again, the &#8220;appropriation,&#8221; if you will, is done with the intention of illuminating an example of suffering by reference to another example of suffering that happens to be in our consciousness. </p>
<p>I think consequentially, if showing images of the slave trade promoted activism to alleviate the plight of other beings, your argument is deeply unethical. And deontologically it is almost hegemonic, in an essentialist way: my suffering is of a different kind, worse even, and therefore even if it can be used in such a way as to end other suffering, it is wrong to do so.</p>
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		<title>By: elainevigneault</title>
		<link>http://loveallbeings.org/blog/giving-meaning-to-veganism/comment-page-1/#comment-361</link>
		<dc:creator>elainevigneault</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 01:46:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://loveallbeings.org/?p=432#comment-361</guid>
		<description>Please tell me specifically what about Meet Your Meat is &quot;perpetuating oppression&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please tell me specifically what about Meet Your Meat is &#8220;perpetuating oppression&#8221;?</p>
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